Category Archives: Autistic Neurology

Dissociative Identity Disorder or Autistic Style of Thinking?

Autistic Neurology

Sometimes autistic neurology – specifically our style of thinking and the way our brain handles information – bumps up against what can appear to be psychiatric symptomatology. This has happened to me many times over the years. My style of thinking is visual along with being quite literal and concrete. I understand myself and, in general, thoughts, ideas and concepts by having or creating an object or visual representation of that construct. Here is an example:

“…in my life, I have come to a fuller understanding of the parts of me as represented by  actual pastel-colored stones. I have the collection in a small box. Each stone holds for me the information about a segment of my history. This is why, as a child, information learned in one setting didn’t automatically transfer to another setting for me, as it seemed to do for others. For example, the “home Judy” might be able to tie shoes and know how to make a sandwich, but the “school Judy” would not be able to access these skills” (Endow, 2009b, p. 17).

In the field of autism, we say individuals are not very good at generalization. We try very hard to help students perform learned skills in a multitude of environments to support generalization. I wonder if we had a way to discover how our student was taking in, processing, storing and retrieving information if we might then be able to develop a system for them to be able to generalize.  Once the system was developed would generalization be able to happen? Nobody knows as it hasn’t yet happened, but it is an interesting question.

In the field of mental health we tend to see in Dissociative Identity Disorder distinctly different parts of one person, sometimes the parts seemingly unknown to each other. I was actually diagnosed with this back when it was called Multiple Personality Disorder. Today I believe this historical diagnosis more accurately represents my autistic style of visual thinking in a very literal and concrete way along with the way my neurology takes in, processes, stores and retrieves information.

“Thus, this first pile of stones was comprised of several pastel-colored bits representing the inside unconnected parts of me – 

WHO I was

in different places,

much of the know-how of the various WHO’s

unrelated to each other

each WHO of her represented by

a separate pastel bit of colored stone” (Endow, 2009b, p.17).

Illustration of Concrete Thinking Impact
Over time, as I grew from a child to a teenager, and then into the various stages of womanhood, I was able to look back over the lifetime of these pastel stones. Each of them as its own bit of ME recorded and encapsulated into an entity of its own. These pastel stones held my history, each era distinct and separate from all the others, with none of the content of the stones overlapping.

Illustration of Information Storage Impact
No wonder I often felt unconnected to my past, as if I was continually starting my life over! I came to understand that this was a function of the way I processed and stored the happenings of my life – each bit encapsulated in its own entity, never intertwined with any other events. It often felt to me as if I was lost from myself.

Illustration of Information Retrieval Impact
When the content of these pastel stones became available to me in my thirties, I was finally able to piece together my past into one whole. During my forties I was able to think of myself as one whole person with a past, a present and a future yet to come. Today I have a good sense of my own personhood, being able to line up the story of each stone chronologically to tell my history, and also to imagine forward into the future. I do this by thing about what story the next stone will show. I have to be able to visualize a new pastel stone inside me before I can plan something into the future, like an upcoming vacation, for example.

Moving Forward
I think it is important to start discussion the issue of when characteristics of autism in general and psychiatric symptoms in specific may be a reflection of autistic neurology – part and parcel of how one thinks and how one takes in, processes, stores and relieves information. Back then, it was diagnosed as Multiple Personality Disorder, known today as Dissociative Identity Disorder. This diagnosis was not accurate nor was it helpful.

One reason it becomes crucial in teasing out whether we are looking at autistic neurology or psychiatric symptomatology is because autistic neurology need not be fixed. Instead, we all simply need to understand how it works for specific individuals and then, based on individual self-determination, we can proceed. For example. in my life, I sometimes just need to explain how I store and retrieve information when I need extra time to answer a question. Other times I simple say, “Please give me a minute.”

On the other hand, when something is reflective of psychiatric symptomatology, then the supports and treatments available to the general public need to be available to the autistic too. It is not appropriate to attribute psychiatric symptomatology to autism. It is appropriate, however, to treat psychiatric symptomatology of an autistic person through the lens of autism.

Selection from Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology, pgs.43-45.

If you are a clinician and interested in learning more about therapy with the autistic client please join me along with two of my colleagues in an online course.

CLICK HERE for additional information about  Mental Health Therapy with the Autistic Client. 

Note: The author is a mental health therapist and is also autistic. She iintentionally uses identity-first language (rather than person-first language), and invites the reader, if interested, to do further research on the preference of most autistic adults to refer to themselves using identity-first language.

BOOKS BY JUDY ENDOW

Endow, J. (2021). Executive Function Assessment. McFarland, WI: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2019).  Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology. Lancaster, PA: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2012). Learning the Hidden Curriculum: The Odyssey of One Autistic Adult. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2006).  Making Lemonade: Hints for Autism’s Helpers. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2013).  Painted Words: Aspects of Autism Translated. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2009b).  Paper Words: Discovering and Living With My Autism. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2009a).  Outsmarting Explosive Behavior: A Visual System of Support and Intervention for Individuals With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2010).  Practical Solutions for Stabilizing Students With Classic Autism to Be Ready to Learn: Getting to Go. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Myles, B. S., Endow, J., & Mayfield, M. (2013).  The Hidden Curriculum of Getting and Keeping a Job: Navigating the Social Landscape of Employment. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

 

Autistic Processing of Social Information

Autistic Neurology,

My autistic neurology means that I am not good at picking up typical social cues, understanding complex social situations, automatically picking up meanings of idioms, or understanding the hidden curriculum that most others automatically pick up (Endow 2012). This means I often look naïve and gullible. The fact is I AM naïve and gullible when I try to use the social constructs of neuromajority folks to navigate the world around me.

When I was younger and deemed “in need of help” that “help” largely involved others trying to teach me to think and act as if I had a typically wired brain. I was never very good at it because no matter how many therapeutic social skills situations I availed myself of, because they were taught as if all participants had a neurotypical brain and my brain was not neurotypical, I mostly failed their learning agenda for me. My brain just plain works differently.

Here is an example: I rarely remember the same details about other people that most folks do. I remember the visual perception that came to me during an interaction, whether or not I was personally a part of that interaction. I pick up much information through seeing the sounds and movements of color people generate along with changes in the air space surrounding them as they speak and go about their business.

When I match the colors of others I can carry on a conversation. When our colors don’t match, the conversation usually doesn’t go well. I did not realize this way of perceiving and understanding the essence of people was not shared by others until recent years (Endow, 2013).

All through my life when others have tried to help me it has been minimally helpful to me. They would most often try to get me to understand the world in the way they understand the world. It was helpful information to know how others were thinking because it explained their behavior. Even so, learning how typical people think does not help me to then be able to think in their way.

Now that you have read the above italicized example of one way I think visually by incorporating the sound and movement of colors people generate do you understand it? Probably so. And now that you understand how I think can you stop thinking the way you think and start thinking the way I think? Probably not!

The way we think is important because it is how we make decisions. It is part of everyday life. In my work life I might avoid business interactions with someone because they have ugly colors with sticky tentacles moving sneakily toward me. A typical person, who’s thinking is language-based, may understand that this potential business partner is devious and less than ethical in his practices. In essence, we both understood the same thing, but I had no way to explain it unless I translated my visual thinking into words. Visual is my native language; it is how I interface with the world around me and how I innately understand people.

Just like it would not be helpful for you to adopt my ways which are foreign to you, please understand that it is not helpful for me to always adopt your foreign ways when making decisions about people. We think differently and that is okay with me. I look forward to the day that my way of thinking is okay with the rest of the world.

In the meantime, if you are a parent, teacher or therapist of an autistic person, perhaps you might find it useful to ponder these questions:

    • Do you know how this autistic person remembers people?
    • Do you know what is important to this autistic person about other people?
    • Do you understand how this autistic person decides who to interact with and who not to interact with?
    • Do you honor this, even if you may not understand it?

Many autistic individuals will not be able to explain to you how they think because it is not word based and thus they have no way to explain it. You do not necessarily need to understand how an autistic person thinks in order to honor it.

Selection from Autistically Thriving: Reading 

Selection from Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology, pgs.39-40.

Note: The author is autistic, intentionally uses identity-first language (rather than person-first language), and invites the reader, if interested, to do further research on the preference of most autistic adults to refer to themselves using identity-first language.

Endow, J. (2019).  Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurol

BOOKS BY JUDY ENDOWEndow, J. (2021). Executive Function Assessment. McFarland, WI: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2019).  Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology. Lancaster, PA: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2012). Learning the Hidden Curriculum: The Odyssey of One Autistic Adult. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2006).  Making Lemonade: Hints for Autism’s Helpers. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2013).  Painted Words: Aspects of Autism Translated. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2009).  Paper Words: Discovering and Living With My Autism. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2009).  Outsmarting Explosive Behavior: A Visual System of Support and Intervention for Individuals With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2010).  Practical Solutions for Stabilizing Students With Classic Autism to Be Ready to Learn: Getting to Go. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Myles, B. S., Endow, J., & Mayfield, M. (2013).  The Hidden Curriculum of Getting and Keeping a Job: Navigating the Social Landscape of Employment. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Executive Function Assessment

Autistic Neurology, Executive Function, , , ,

During the past several years I have been working with both teachers and clinicians to see and support executive function challenges in their autistic students and clients. In the process, the Executive Function Assessment was born. Recently, It has been published in downloadable PDF format. Here is the information and the table of contents of what is in the Executive Function Assessment download:

Many individuals struggle with one or more components of executive function in their daily lives. Assessed are  each of the five components – flexibility, leveled emotionality, impulse control, planning/organizing, and problem solving. Based on the book  FLIPP the Switch: Strengthen Executive Function Skill  by Wilkins and Burmeister, this Executive Function Assessment is appropriate for use with (or on behalf of) intermediate, middle, high school and college career individuals. It has been found helpful in both school and clinical settings. The main part of this paper and pencil 20-page PDF download, the Executive Function Assessment Teacher Report, can be filled out by a teacher or a Mental Health clinician about the individual with whom they are working.

Next is a companion Executive Function Support and Intervention Plan that allows the user to document the specific goals, supports/interventions and data collection used by school staff or Mental Health clinicians to address specific executive function challenges based on the assessment. Also included is the Executive Function Student Interview for the teacher or Mental Health clinician to use. It is recommended to get the perspective of the student or client, involving them in the process and decision making on which areas to address to better their daily lives.

When an individual has strong executive function they are able to organize, plan, problem solve and pay attention to and remember details. Additionally, strong executive function helps a person remain calm under pressure and to be flexible when things do not work out right the first time (2015, Wilkins & Burmeister).

School staff report what they liked best about this assessment is it gave them specific and helpful ways to talk about their students during IEP meetings. Additionally, assessment items easily turned into  to IEP goals, on which students made progress.

A Mental Health clinician shares this: “In my therapy practice I only see autistic clients who have comorbid DSM diagnosis. The Executive Function Assessment has been helpful for clients (and parents) to understand just which things are difficult and what, if anything, to do about it.”

Table of Contents

What is Executive Function …………………………………………………….……………… 2

Executive Function Components ………………………………………………….………..… 2

Which Disorders Commonly Manifest Executive Function Challenges? ……..…….……… 3

Executive Function Teacher Report ………………………………………………….…….… 4

Executive Function Support and Intervention Plan ……………..………………………… 12

Executive Function Student Interview …………………..………..………………………… 13

Wilkins, S., & Burmeister, C. (2015). FLIPP the Switch: Strengthen Executive Function Skills. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Note: The author is autistic, intentionally uses identity-first language (rather than person-first language), and invites the reader, if interested, to do further research on the preference of most autistic adults to refer to themselves using identity-first language.

BOOKS   BY JUDY ENDOW

Endow, J. (2021). Executive Function Assessment. McFarland, WI: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2019). Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology. Lancaster, PA: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2012).  Learning the Hidden Curriculum: The Odyssey of One Autistic Adult. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2006).  Making Lemonade: Hints for Autism’s Helpers. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2013).  Painted Words: Aspects of Autism Translated. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2009).  Paper Words: Discovering and Living With My Autism. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2009).  Outsmarting Explosive Behavior: A Visual System of Support and Intervention for Individuals With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2010).  Practical Solutions for Stabilizing Students With Classic Autism to Be Ready to Learn: Getting to Go. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Myles, B. S., Endow, J., & Mayfield, M. (2013).  The Hidden Curriculum of Getting and Keeping a Job: Navigating the Social Landscape of Employment. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

The Problem of Attributing Negative Intentionality to Autistic Behavior

Autistic "Behavior", Autistic Neurology

Problems arise when we attribute willfulness to behavior of an autistic and then regard it as fact. One problem is that because it is not willful on the part of the autistic, when the assumptions of “won’t” or “doesn’t want to” are erroneously made, it is a difficult (if not impossible) platform on which to start a positive relationship with another human being. Just like it is difficult for any human being to learn skills, feel comfortable and thrive when those around him think poorly of him, so is it for autistics.

Another problem arises when behaviors observed are stated in language ascribing intentional negative attribute or willfulness to the autistic such as “he won’t” or “she refuses to” in that it can undermine problem solving the kinds of supports that might be helpful.

Classroom Example

Here is an example based on the assumption of classroom staff that a student did not want to listen or join conversations of non-interest.

I was called in to see 5-year-old Max who was throwing toys at his classmates. When the classmates reacted in a negative manner such as shouting, “Stop that, Max!” or crying, Max would laugh and throw another toy at this child. Even though Max was getting negative feedback from his peers, it seemed to encourage him rather than deter him as evidenced by the increasing frequency of his behavior of throwing toys at his classmates.

When I asked the team if Max had a way to initiate conversation or request a classmate to play with him I was quickly assured that Max did not like to engage with other children and was given several examples such as he wandered around during Circle Time, never joining in and when the students did stations where they engaged in a variety of play activities in small groups, Max was never interested in their conversations or activities. Instead he picked up items in the station and threw them at the other students.

This team was stuck in their ability to solve the problem. When the neuromajority team members observed Max’s behavior their own neurology informed them. If they them- selves had been wandering around during Circle Time or throwing toys at their class- mates it would mean that they did want to listen or join in conversations or that the play wasn’t interesting to them. The team members were unaware that their own neurology was the base from which they tried to solve the problem.

The lens our neurology uses to look through at a particular situation outside of us is just that – the lens of our own neurology, propelling us to ask what would this behavior mean were I engaged in it? Our brain tabulates this information and provides us a sense making explanation without us even consciously thinking in this way or even being aware of the process! Yet, it is important to know our brains automatically problem solve for us in this manner even though we are not aware of our brains doing so.

It is important to understand when we make neuromajority attributions to autistics we are generally wrong AND it can cause us to become stuck in our own problem solving concerning the situation. This team hadn’t even considered the possible communicative intent of Max’s behavior because they thought Max was not at all interested in communication with his classmates or with anyone.

When Max’s behavior was reframed as misguided attempts to initiate conversation and join in play this same team of people became great problem solvers! A month later when I returned to the classroom I observed Max affixing the Velcro cloud to the weather square during Circle Time and then sitting on the masking tape X – his visual spot to sit at Circle Time.

Follow Up

Three months later I observed Max choosing a visual mini schedule from the available options, each option sequentially outlining a way to play at the kitchen station. The mini schedule showed him exactly what to do and in what order at the station. First a pan with eggs on the stove, next a spatula removing the egg from the pan, then putting it on a plate, and last saying, “Here is an egg to eat,” while placing the egg on the table. Another student sat down and pretended to eat the egg.

Conclusion

Max had received direct instruction on what to do at Circle Time and what to do at the kitchen station. It turned out he really was interested and did want to join in the conversations and activities in the classroom. He just did not have the skills to do so. Once the skills were taught and his neurology supported he was able to join in with his classmates in a more effective and satisfying way than to throw toys at them and laugh.

This story shows the errors we can make when ascribing negative intentionality and willfulness to behaviors of autistics.

Selection from  Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology

Note: The author is autistic, intentionally uses identity-first language (rather than person-first language), and invites the reader, if interested, to do further research on the preference of most autistic adults to refer to themselves using identity-first language.

BOOKS  BY JUDY ENDOW

Endow, J. (2019). Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology. Lancaster, PA: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2012). Learning the Hidden Curriculum: The Odyssey of One Autistic Adult.Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2006). Making Lemonade: Hints for Autism’s Helpers. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2013). Painted Words: Aspects of Autism Translated. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2009). Paper Words: Discovering and Living With My Autism. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2009). Outsmarting Explosive Behavior: A Visual System of Support and Intervention for Individuals With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2010). Practical Solutions for Stabilizing Students With Classic Autism to Be Ready to Learn: Getting to Go.Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Myles, B. S., Endow, J., & Mayfield, M. (2013). The Hidden Curriculum of Getting and Keeping a Job: Navigating the Social Landscape of Employment.  Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Concrete Style of Thinking

Autism, Autistic Neurology

When it comes to autistic individuals, those whose brain gloms onto concrete thinking are often our rule followers. They know exactly how things are meant to go and they follow their perceived routine, doing things exactly in the same way every time.

One time I was called in to a high school because a student on the spectrum had picked up a tabletop copy machine and threw it on the floor, causing considerable damage. This situation was cartooned and the problem discovered before we even got to the event of throwing the copy machine to the floor.

This student was able to draw cartoon stick figures and then told me what to write in the word bubbles and thought bubbles as we went. First, he was sitting at his desk doing a math worksheet. Next, he was sitting at his desk reading his paperback chapter book. Then the bell rang signaling the class was over. He then threw his book on the floor.

This student asked if I could write swear words in the word bubble because he actually had said a swear word, but the rule was no swearing in school. I knew he would get stuck on this if I didn’t find a way through for him because his cartooning needed to be accurate and he also needed to follow the rules. Therefore, I showed him how to write a swear word using asterisks in place of some of the letters.

When he got done with that frame I commented he must have been really ticked off about something to use a swear word, especially since he was such a great rule follower and the school had a no swearing rule. He told me, “Not mad, not sad.”

I accepted that and then added to the frame showing the bell had rung. (An empty frame that had the letters bzzz to indicate the bell sound.) I added a stick figure and a thought bubble and prompted, “Tell me the words to write in your thought bubble.” Using this visually concrete way to elicit the timeline of events along with his thoughts worked well.

The words in the thought bubble turned out to be the internalized rules he had made for himself on how to read a book. The steps were actually numbered! He had made this list when he was a very young boy and his parents read him storybooks. The rule list went through such things as turn open the cover and the front page one, turn each page and read each word until there are no more words or pictures, turn any remaining pages, turn the inside back cover to close the book.

I could see the problem! He was using a preschool set of rules for reading a picture book and now he was in high school reading chapter books. The rules no longer worked! Generally, a chapter book is not read in one sitting. How frustrating to take out his book for pleasure reading each time his seat work was finished and to start reading on the same page one over and over! He said, “I follow the rules as I know I should. Over and over, again and again, but never do I get to the end of my book. It must be because I’m stupid” (Endow, 2006).

We needed a solution that would work for his neurology. When I suggested that since his old rules were meant for childhood picture books maybe he could update the rules to cover chapter books he disagreed. He wasn’t changing the rules. They were the rules!

The next time I saw him I brought several bookmarks with stickers of his then favorite Toy Story movie. He was invited to make a set of rules for how bookmarks worked that could fit into his rules for reading a book. It worked!

Once again, understanding his neurological style of thinking dictated by the way autism played out in his brain allowed for a resolution to the behavior of throwing his book each day at the end of math class which culminated in a frustration big enough that on his way out the door one day he picked up and threw a copy machine.

Even though throwing things was the behavior problem I was called in to solve, it wasn’t the real problem. Finding the glitch – that place where his autistic style of thinking did not interface well with the world around him – is what was needed. Then, once the real problem is discovered we needed to come up with a real solution – one that worked for him – i.e., bookmarks!

Simply giving him a rule such as no throwing things may have served to cut down on the throwing, but the frustration would have grown and he would have engaged in an alternative-to-throwing behavior. We often give our students rules about what they can and cannot do around their behaviors. It seems to make sense, especially when they are rule followers, but it rarely pans out as a viable long-term solution.

Additionally, we have the science that allows us to extinguish a behavior. In the long run it usually doesn’t serve anyone well to simply extinguish a behavior because that behavior is a solution for something – in this case to release the pressure that came from feeling compelled to follow a set of rules that no longer served him well. When one behavior is extinguished it is soon replaced by a new behavior that is always a more intense behavior. It doesn’t work to just say no to behaviors. We need to find the glitch – that place where autistic neurology doesn’t interface smoothly with the context of life – and outsmart that place based on that particular individual’s neurology.

Taken from  Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology. 

BOOKS   BY JUDY ENDOW

Endow, J. (2019).  Autistically Thriving: Reading Comprehension, Conversational Engagement, and Living a Self-Determined Life Based on Autistic Neurology. Lancaster, PA: Judy Endow.

Endow, J. (2012). Learning the Hidden Curriculum: The Odyssey of One Autistic Adult. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2006).  Making Lemonade: Hints for Autism’s Helpers. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2013).  Painted Words: Aspects of Autism Translated. Cambridge, WI: CBR Press.

Endow, J. (2009).  Paper Words: Discovering and Living With My Autism. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2009).  Outsmarting Explosive Behavior: A Visual System of Support and Intervention for Individuals With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Endow, J. (2010).  Practical Solutions for Stabilizing Students With Classic Autism to Be Ready to Learn: Getting to Go. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.

Myles, B. S., Endow, J., & Mayfield, M. (2013).  The Hidden Curriculum of Getting and Keeping a Job: Navigating the Social Landscape of Employment. Shawnee Mission, KS: AAPC Publishing.